.~*the island*~. => ~♪♫Anime and Manga Spa♫♪~ => Topic started by: McJongJing on February 20, 2015, 09:49:51 AM
Title: What makes good moe?
Post by: McJongJing on February 20, 2015, 09:49:51 AM
What do you think makes for good moe? I think that, in order for something to be moe, it needs to stand out. I watch something like Kantai Collection, and none of the girls appear particularly cute. They all feel cookie cutter, like they were the result of focus testing otaku*.
However, I found all of the girls in Yuru Yuri to be very cute. I believe this was because the show had enough original ideas for the characters to stand out. For example, Chizuru is supposed to be a cutie, but her drawings are ugly and terrifying. Furthermore, she is a rapist and a bully. Akarin is a girl without much of a presence. The show plays with this in memorable ways. Like the time travel episode, or the joke where she avoids the wave by not being in the frame.
In order to make good moe, you have to make the characters stand out, otherwise the audience can't care. They need to feel more like people and less like pandering cartoons designed to make money.
What do you think makes for good moe?
*Maybe it's different in the card game I don't plan on playing
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: bubblecat on February 20, 2015, 10:28:14 AM
I think there's a difference between being characterized as a pure, innocent, and genuinely cute character and being characterized as a complete retard that you're supposed to find endearing, and that's where I draw the line.
Positive example: Rin from Usagi Drop
Negative example: Yui from K-ON
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: Ming on February 20, 2015, 10:43:04 AM
When they are just plain retarded it's pretty cringe worthy. :angry:
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/285/3/9/milky_holmes___sheryl_autographed_by_fujikoeurekachamploo-d5hkaen.jpg) What about this tard? I think she's able to pull off the moe retard thing.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: bubblecat on February 20, 2015, 08:36:39 PM
I'll never understand the fervent fanbase behind milky holmes.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: McJongJing on February 20, 2015, 08:50:22 PM
I don't see how you can not like Milky Holmes. The girls are cute and it has really good comedic timing.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: bubblecat on February 20, 2015, 09:00:16 PM
Great timing on those low level random anime gags, yeah. :tch:
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: Ming on February 20, 2015, 09:13:46 PM
Bubblecat is an anime connoisseur. :relax:
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: bubblecat on February 20, 2015, 09:22:41 PM
You got that right.
:scheming:
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: McJongJing on February 20, 2015, 11:47:38 PM
No, that would describe something like Humanity Has Declined. Milky Holmes is largely referential humor (the worst kind), pervy anime junk, and slapstick nonsense.
Amazing
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: Ming on February 21, 2015, 07:47:30 AM
Comedic genius.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: McJongJing on February 21, 2015, 04:29:00 PM
No, that would describe something like Humanity Has Declined. Milky Holmes is largely referential humor (the worst kind), pervy anime junk, and slapstick nonsense.
Amazing
Humanity Has Declined was some good shit. Anyway, I don't remember much referential humour in Milky Holmes. I'll agree with you on the slapstick and pervy humour though. However I felt that the majority of it was executed well enough to be funny. And there were some clever jokes in there. Like when they throw the message through their window and they're not able to read it because it's in Kanji.
Also, what's up with the voices in that scene? Is that an edit? Was there a reason for them to go so high pitched?
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: bubblecat on February 21, 2015, 05:43:09 PM
It references things like crazy yo. From every single medium, too. In the most recent series one episode alone referenced A Clockwork Orange, Ghostbusters, AKB48, Saint Seiya, Hakuto no Ken, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and Attack on Titan. :sweatdrop:
Sometimes it's really subtle about it, like a Castle of Cagliostro reference where they use Kokoro's name as a pun referencing a line in the movie. Admittedly that was kinda clever, but I still think relying on other properties for a joke is lame.
Not sure if that video is an edit or not, it might be to avoid copyright from funimation or something. I don't recall it shifting like that in the series.
It references things like crazy yo. From every single medium, too. In the most recent series one episode alone referenced A Clockwork Orange, Ghostbusters, AKB48, Saint Seiya, Hakuto no Ken, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and Attack on Titan. :sweatdrop:
Sometimes it's really subtle about it, like a Castle of Cagliostro reference where they use Kokoro's name as a pun referencing a line in the movie. Admittedly that was kinda clever, but I still think relying on other properties for a joke is lame.
Not sure if that video is an edit or not, it might be to avoid copyright from funimation or something. I don't recall it shifting like that in the series.
The new series is fucking garbage though. In fact, everything past season 2 is garbage, and should be ignored. I simply don't recall that many references in the original. Perhaps I've forgotten them. It's been a while since I watched through Milky.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: bubblecat on February 21, 2015, 07:16:53 PM
I can only comment on season 1 and the current TD, but yeah season 1 was not as crazy and blatant with it as the newer one is, but it was certainly still there. The Cagliostro example I mentioned was from s1.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: McJongJing on February 21, 2015, 07:23:29 PM
I can only comment on season 1 and the current TD, but yeah season 1 was not as crazy and blatant with it as the newer one is, but it was certainly still there. The Cagliostro example I mentioned was from s1.
That was at least clever though I'll rewatch some of season one tonight and see how many references I find.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: Ollistar on February 22, 2015, 02:11:13 AM
Yui never seemed that bad but that's probably because I knew a couple girls in high school who were literally that dumb.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: McJongJing on February 22, 2015, 04:36:20 AM
I can only comment on season 1 and the current TD, but yeah season 1 was not as crazy and blatant with it as the newer one is, but it was certainly still there. The Cagliostro example I mentioned was from s1.
That was at least clever though I'll rewatch some of season one tonight and see how many references I find.
Okay I just watched episode 4 of season one. Picked it at random. I spotted a few references. There was a mole wearing a hard hat from Mega man. It was just in the background for a second though, and not the focus of a joke, so I didn't find it too intrusive. There's a part where Sheryl faces down a bear. She tries to calm it with a song and dance. During this she changes outfits. I think it might be homage to something. Anyway the bear punches Sheryl in the face. I didn't mind this one either. Even though I didn't understand the homage, I still got the joke. We think Sheryl is going to calm the bear, but instead it punches her in the face.
What I did have a problem with was the part where the bear steps on a landmine. I don't remember a landmine being set up earlier in the episode. It hasn't tried to avert my expectations or anything. It just comes out of nowhere.
A lot of the slapstick stuff felt predictable. They would set something up to be optimistic, but then some wacky slapstick happens instead. It stops being funny after a while. There were a few clever jokes though, like how the milkies are lured into a cage with a trail of bananas. They swear to break free and save Sheryl, until they're given more bananas.
Tldr: eh I guess you're (mostly) right
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: bubblecat on February 22, 2015, 08:19:11 AM
I think that's really the key to whether you'll like the show; if you can put up with the all the predictable nonsense for the few moments where it's clever or not. For me it's not worth it as that stuff puts me off way too much for it to be worthwhile.
Yui never seemed that bad but that's probably because I knew a couple girls in high school who were literally that dumb.
My image of high school girls are that they are dumb in the way that they have mindless sex, do drugs and waste all their money on clothes. Not in the way that they act like an actual baby.
Title: Re: What makes good moe?
Post by: ScumbagSoldier on February 24, 2015, 06:05:34 PM
Good moe:Characters whose moe appeal comes from them being well written, relatable characters.
Shit moe:Characters specifically designed for moe appeal by stapling common "moe'" characteristics together.